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Malhavoc
Press
Chat Transcript: Beyond Countless Doorways
August
12, 2004 — 5 p.m. PST
 Last
week in our chat room we were pleased to see a veritable
"Who's Who" of Planescape designers all
gathered to discuss our new book of planes, Beyond
Countless Doorways. With me were designers Wolfgang
Baur, Colin McComb, and Ray Vallese. Thanks to everyone
who attended and asked questions! And thanks as well to
Matt Locke for moderating and to Conrad Hubbard sending
us this transcript*.—Monte
Galhavoc
Hi, everyone, and welcome to our chat featuring the authors
of Beyond Countless Doorways. I'm Sue Cook, your
cruise director. With us tonight are some names you're probably
familiar with... but I'll introduce them anyway. First we
have Ray Vallese, designer of Planescape's Something
Wild and Uncaged and editor of many, many books
as well.
Ray
Vallese
Hey, that's me! Hello!
Galhavoc
Then we have Colin McComb, author of Hellbound, Faces
of Evil, On Hallowed Ground, and many more Planescapy
titles.
Colin
McComb
Howdy howdy howdy.
Galhavoc
I'll jump ahead to Monte now, author of the Planewalker's
Handbook, The Great Modron March, Dead Gods, and other
groovy planar titles.
Monte
Cook
Hey, everyone.
Galhavoc
Joining us shortly is Wolfgang Baur, designer of In the
Cage, Planes of Law, and Planes of Chaos. Monte
and I feel very proud to have assembled such a stellar crew
to bring you Beyond Countless Doorways, a new sourcebook
of 18 all-new planes. We thought this book would be a fun
way to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Planescape
setting's launch. And it was! So first, perhaps each of
our guests can say a few opening words about either his
time on Planescape or his new planes in Beyond
Countless Doorways. Colin, as the first one in the room,
let's start with you!
Colin
McComb
Woo! Eat my dust, Ray!
Ray
Vallese
Mmmm . . . dusty.
Colin
McComb
I'd have to say that working with these fine people on Planescape
may have been one of the happiest times of my young, formative
years. I don't know that I'd ever laughed so much or so
long, and I am absolutely delighted to be back in contact
with all of them.
Galhavoc
Thanks! Ray?
Ray
Vallese
Gee . . . I'm not sure I can top Colin's sentiment, so let
me just agree with it, and say that I, too, can sit back
and recreate various good times from my Planescape
days at TSR in my head and just giggle to myself until my
family members begin to worry about me. Making cool game
products with Monte, Colin, Wolf, and Sue was a rewarding
time.
Monte
Cook
Is it my turn yet? I can't wait to say what a hellish nightmare
it was to work on this stuff with these guys and how glad
I am that it's over.
Galhavoc
Ahem...
Monte
Cook
Uh, I mean, it was great and they're the best. Seriously,
I still feel like I was at my most creative working on Planescape.
It was also one of the most enjoyable periods of my career.
Wolfgang
Baur
Hello, everyone! I'm pleased and surprised that Monte invited
everyone back and I am hoping that down the road there are
adventures or perhaps even Beyond Countless Doorways
II.
Matt
Locke
For any questions -- just type them in the channel and I'll
get them, and put them through to the channel one at a time
in the order that I get them. Okay, first question
BlackMoria
First off.... Beyond Countless Doorways is a absolutely
great so a thank you and well done to all the designers.
Now for my question - What is the first step in designing
a new plane? Does it start with an idea or some cool concept
and develops from there? Or is the approach more methodical?
Wolfgang
Baur
I don't think we were ever that methodical. Planescape
was always about the cool idea and running with it.
Monte
Cook
First off, thanks. I think it starts with the idea. I think
that's the thing that made Planescape great -- the
amazing ideas more than the rules or anything else. A sense
of wonder.
Ray
Vallese
For me, I just came up with a bunch of wacky ideas of things
that would be fun to develop and fun for people to use in
game play. Since I was only writing two planes for Beyond
Countless Doorways, I wanted to narrow it down to two
planes that I would have a lot of interesting things to
say about. There was nothing methodical about it. It was
just finding cool ideas (or ideas that I thought were cool).
Colin
McComb
In this particular case, yeah, it was definitely the idea.
A formless something, half-remembered from a dream maybe,
crystallized by a moment of conversation. And then when
we'd all written down our basic ideas, we passed them to
Monte, who gave them a yay or nay.
Ray
Vallese
My problem is that I wanted Monte to tell me which of my
ideas were better that others so that I could really get
the best stuff out. But darn him, he liked almost everything
I came up with!
Wolfgang
Baur
"A formless something"? You've been reading too much Lovecraft,
Colin.
Colin
McComb
Wolf, does it show? I thought I'd covered my tracks...
Wolfgang
Baur
Does it show that you are a man of warped twistedness? Yes.
No one can do that much Blood War material without permanent
soul damage.
Colin
McComb
As I recall, you were heavily invested in the Blood War
as well, sir. ;)
Monte
Cook
I think we might be ready for the next question, Matt.
Java
Fiend
One of the most interesting, and for me most problematic,
concepts in Planescape was the idea that belief alters
reality. I could never figure out how to actually implement
this in my Planescape campaigns, and as a result
my games felt like standard D&D games, except set in
weird places with funny NPCs. Does Beyond Countless Doorways
touch on these kind of far-out concepts?
Monte
Cook
Not directly. What you're talking about is more of a mood
or a frame of mind than a rule you can implement.
Colin
McComb
To some extent, yes. Yet one of the things we were trying
to do in this was to open up the planes to people who didn't
necessarily want to wrestle with philosophical conundrums.
Wolfgang
Baur
I always liked those elements, in small doses. I think that
Beyond Countless Doorways does have one or two far-out
ideas (playing with time or faith, for instance), but most
of the planes are pretty grounded.
Ray
Vallese
In one of my planes, the inhabitants directly believe that
their faith will restore the entire plane to life. So that
sort of gets at the idea, but it's not quantified in game
rules, like Planescape (sort of) was.
Wolfgang
Baur
Zeb was always a fan of things along those lines, inspired
by Borges, or "the dictionary of the kazars" and the like.
Also, the factions pushed that element to the fore. Without
the factions, there's less emphasis on "philosophers with
clubs."
Inalchuk
General question: What seems to have the greater appeal
-- Planescape-esque products (like Beyond Countless
Doorways) or psionics products (like Hyperconscious)?
Do the initial sales figures tell a surprising story, or
is it still too early to tell?
Monte
Cook
Well, from a sales perspective, it's too early to tell.
I think both types of products have a large and devout following,
though.
Galhavoc
Each of you, what was your favorite plane to design for
Beyond Countless Doorways?
Colin
McComb
I think I said Carrigmoor once before, but I've changed
my mind back to Faraenyl.
Monte
Cook
Why?
Colin
McComb
Because the images associated with the plane aren't going
away. Because I see the dead kings ride across the face
of Fall's moon. I see the wolves howl in the pine forests
of Winter. I see the indolent days and savage hunts of Summer.
And the cool mists, hiding shadows, that rise from the vales
of Spring.
Wolfgang
Baur
Yeah, it's brutal when the nightmares don't stop.
Monte
Cook
Ray (and tell us about your choice)?
Ray
Vallese
Hmm . . . I think I liked Palpatur, which, for those who
haven't read the book, was a sentient plane that grew organic
technology for its tiefling inhabitants until a spillover
battle between tanar'ri and baatezu devastated the land
and shocked the plane into a coma. It gave me a chance to
be really wild and gross at the same time, and create something
that I thought was different from other planes I'd seen
and/or worked on before. And I liked the bioleche
(dormant organic tech) and the possibilities for the PCs
to find and play with that stuff.
Monte
Cook
Wolf?
Wolfgang
Baur
Oooooh. So hard to decide. I think I had the highest hopes
for "The Ten Courts of Hell," but it turned out to be more
limited in play than I'd expected. Good for one-shots rather
than a campaign. But the plane that I'm most pleased with
is the Lizard Kingdoms. It's an alternate history, where
the dinosaurs still rule the earth, along with some races
of insect people.
Ray
Vallese
(Jumping in) I edited Wolf's planes, and I was very impressed
with the level of detail Wolf put into the Lizard Kingdoms.
It's a fully realized world.
Wolfgang
Baur
I like it because I wish I could have written it as a 96-page
campaign setting. It has a lot of room to grow into a full-blown
set of adventures, and could be a recurring place for planar
travelers to visit. Too often, I think we try to outsmart
ourselves with our planes, making them fun to visit but
not fun to linger.
Matt
Locke
Monte?
Monte
Cook
It's hard to choose, but I guess my favorite is Kin-Li'in,
a hellish plane where your own shadows can turn against
you and the shadows of demons burn you should they fall
upon you. It's a tough place, but who doesn't like a plane
full of demons?
BlackMoria
When designing Beyond Countless Doorways, were you
limited in any way by the legacy of Planescape (Sigil,
the cant, factions, etc.) and the fact that much of that
is intellectual property still held by Wizards of the Coast?
Colin
McComb
Not really. What Monte described as his vision for this
project helped steer us away from the Planescape
model very quickly.
Wolfgang
Baur
Not as much as you'd think. Yes, not having Sigil was sometimes
difficult, but not working in the factions meant that we
could strike out in new directions.
Ray
Vallese
Actually, in Dendri, I have a bunch of formians looking
for new worlds to conquer, so many PCs could follow them
to one of the other planes in Beyond Countless Doorways,
a la the modrons from The Great Modron March.
Colin
McComb
Maybe an invitation to Faraenyl along the way, engineered
by the players, so they can use the fairyland's portals
to get someplace closer along the string.
Monte
Cook
It might be cool, as a web enhancement, to put up just the
outline of an adventure that uses most or all of the planes,
actually. Really, though, the link to use is the idea of
series conjunctions. You have to go through other planes
to get to the one you want.
Galhavoc
The lowest-level adventure ideas take place in the Lizard
Kingdoms ("Egg Mayhem") and Ouno, the Storm Realm ("The
Stowaway").
Ray
Vallese
Yep, and don't forget the linking spots in the first chapter,
like the Ethereal, the Nexus, and others.
Java
Fiend
Do you think that when you're designing planes, you have
to have an overall picture of your cosmology (e.g. the Great
Wheel), or are you okay with being able to "plug in" your
new plane into whatever cosmology you might run into? And
if so, does that in any way limit the nature of planes that
you design?
Wolfgang
Baur
The cosmology matters most to players and DMs who have a
well-established, long-running game. As a player or DM,
you don't want to mess that up. But as a designer, you want
to offer people the widest range of choices. So especially
in planar design, you toss out things that you KNOW won't
work in some settings, because otherwise you wind up with
a very generic middle ground. And that's not the way the
Planescape twist works.
Colin
McComb
With something like Beyond Countless Doorways, I
think it's easier -- and yet paradoxically more daunting
-- to design a plane. Running with what Wolf said, with
Planescape, we KNEW that there was a core cosmology.
And that limited us to working within those constraints.
But at the same time, we knew that we wouldn't be breaking
people's worlds.
Monte
Cook
Really, each plane should probably be self contained. They
are, after all, their own "universe." Only when you talk
about planar travelers and conjunctions and portals do you
start to think about how it interacts with everything else.
In Planescape, you had to be aware of the cosmology,
but still, there was an importance in making each plane
its own setting as well. It's a balance, I suppose.
Ray
Vallese
I know I treated Beyond Countless Doorways more as
plug-n-play. I think Monte said early in the book that we
shouldn't be constrained by a cosmology.
Monte
Cook
Ultimately, that makes the planes in Beyond Countless
Doorways very modular, and (we hope) very usable.
BlackMoria
Will there be a Beyond Countless Doorways II? Or
more correctly, would the gang like to get together and
collaborate on another product like Beyond Countless
Doorways?
Colin
McComb
LOVE TO. Assuming, of course, that this one sells enough
to justify it.
Wolfgang
Baur
I'd love to, but I imagine it will depend on sales and fan
reaction.
Ray
Vallese
Monte had to drag me into writing for Beyond Countless
Doorways because I thought I wouldn't have the time
to do the book justice, but I enjoyed it so much, that I'd
definitely come back. I'd like to develop some of the "conjunction
plane" ideas further.
Monte
Cook
It certainly would be fun. I really enjoyed working on this.
Wolfgang
Baur
Maybe write a planar series of adventures as well.
Colin
McComb
Hey Monte and Sue, you guys totally owe us another shot
at this. Even if you only sell two copies.
Monte
Cook
Colin, if you just go out and buy every copy, then it won't
be a problem.
Ray
Vallese
That's so crazy it just might work!
Colin
McComb
But... but... what about the PDFs?
Monte
Cook
Yeah, it's not like we can run out of those...
Galhavoc
That's the Planescape twist!
Monte
Cook
Ha!
Inalchuk
There seems to be sentiment from the creators that more
content is possible. Question about the creative process:
How much time did it take to produce Beyond Countless
Doorways, and would a follow-up (with additional content)
be practical? Or is it too tiring?
Wolfgang
Baur
Years of deep thought in remote monasteries were required.
Colin
McComb
Whereas I took a job as a butcher-truck assistant in order
to make my role more convincing.
Ray
Vallese
It took me a long time just to come up with the basic ideas,
only because I had plenty to sort through. The actual writing
of each plane didn't take long because they were a lot of
fun to do.
Wolfgang
Baur
Actually, there was an involved process of pitching concepts
(to avoid overlap), writing, editing, and follow-up development.
We got a lot of questions from Ray and Sue to refine each
plane as much as possible.
Monte
Cook
Honestly, for me, writing material like Beyond Countless
Doorways flows onto the keyboard a lot faster than writing
something rules heavy like Arcana
Unearthed or Book
of Eldritch Might.... Oh, I mean, it was really
hard and took a lot of time (I don't want to be left out).
Colin
McComb
Really, it's mainly a matter of time and schedules. I know
Malhavoc has a full lineup for a while, and all of us have
our own particular monkeys to bear. But tiring? No.
Ray
Vallese
Or bears to monkey.
Monte
Cook
Woo! Monkeys!
Colin
McComb
I can't imagine the bear would be happy about that.
Wolfgang
Baur
Okay, we confess: the writing was a joy.
Colin
McComb
Though, as I said in an interview, I've discovered that
having a mobile child isn't conducive to a long, quiet writing
spell.
Inalchuk
Which Beyond Countless Doorways plane would you put
into your personal campaign right this moment and why?
Monte
Cook
Right now, Yragon is a part of my campaign.
Wolfgang
Baur
Oh, I've already tormented my regular group with the Ten
Courts of Hell. But I think I could probably work Kin-Li'in
into the current plot arc at a moment's notice.
Colin
McComb
I'd do the Courts, because I think everyone needs a good
dose of deviltry.
Ray
Vallese
I'd like to run away from dinosaurs in the Lizard Kingdoms,
myself.
Monte
Cook
My current group of players would also get a kick out fighting
off the invasion in Dendri.
Thrommel
Would anyone care to speculate why modrons were sidelined
in favor of formians in 3rd Edition? Modrons are SO much
cooler!
Monte
Cook
I can do more than speculate.
Colin
McComb
Please do.
Matt
Locke
Oooo, insider info!
Wolfgang
Baur
Yeah, I'd like to hear the dirt on this. Formians make better
miniatures?
Monte
Cook
Originally, when it was proposed that they go into the MM,
it was decided that there were too many of them, and it
would take too much core rulebook space. But the assumption
was that they would go into a follow-up book, like Manual
of the Planes. But some of the designers didn't like modrons,
and so we got the inevitables instead. (I have a hard time
even typing that sentence because I'm still a little incredulous,
actually.) I love modrons. Really a lot. I did the rogue
modron player character rules in Planewalker's Handbook
because I wanted to play a clockwork box. I mean, how cool
is that?
Wolfgang
Baur
Feh on the inevitables. They sound like a super hero group.
Go modrons!
Monte
Cook
Exactly my thought, Wolfgang.
Ray
Vallese
I love 'em, too. They even make a cameo in one of my planes.
Sort of.
Colin
McComb
Who'd write The Inevitables comic book?
Wolfgang
Baur
Oh, Alan Moore, probably.
Colin
McComb
I dunno, I'm thinking it's a Moore wanna-be. Probably a
Marvel writer. ;)
Monte
Cook
As super heroes, the Inevitables wouldn't fight crime. They'd
just hang around and say, "Someone will take care of it.
It's... inevitable."
Wolfgang
Baur
*Groan*
Matt
Locke
Uhhh... next question?
Ray
Vallese
I've got to go now. I hope to see you all digitally again
soon. Thanks for the invite to the chat. Bye!
Matt
Locke
Bye Ray -- thanks for coming!
Wolfgang
Baur
See you, Ray!
Colin
McComb
Bye, Ray!
Inalchuk
I found your last chapter ("Through the Looking Glass")
especially thought-provoking in terms of kicking jaded players
in the rump with new twists on "reality". The Midnight
campaign setting, for example, focuses on what happens if
Evil wins. Has Malhavoc entertained ideas of doing cross-over
one-shot adventures or supplements in the settings of other
publishers, much like comics do crossover issues?
Monte
Cook
Well, that's a neat idea, but currently we've got so many
original products on the schedule that working with someone
else's setting isn't on the front burner. That's what "Through
the Looking Glass" was for: making it easier so that
you could do that yourself, really.
Java
Fiend
Can you mention any literary inspirations that you've had
for planar ideas? Moorcock and Zelazny top my own list...
Colin
McComb
I have a deep and abiding love for Zelazny, and have since
the seventh grade, when a friend of mine started calling
me Corwin. Moorcock, obviously, was highly influential on
this compilation. And even though I occasionally find it
difficult to wade through his prose, there's no denying
that the man has some tremendously creative and cool ideas.
Wolfgang
Baur
Lots and lots: Borges, Milorad Pavic, Robert van Gulik for
Asian-themed planes, Swift. But as often as not, it's nonfiction
that inspires a particular plane for me. And yes, Moorcock.
Colin
McComb
Italo Calvino... The Dictionary of Angels....
Monte
Cook
I've been pretty up front about the fact that the cosmology
as a whole was inspired by Moorcock. (Also the grahlus,
a little bit.) Other than that, no one author springs to
mind except maybe Neil Gaiman. And Mike Carey, the writer
currently writing the Lucifer comic book.
Wolfgang
Baur
Yeah, it's always the mind-bending guys. Neverwhere
seems Planescapy to me.
nightbringer
In Beyond Countless Doorways, did you make an effort
to include "cool" creatures (like, in my opinion,
salamanders) that aren't otherwise used often?
Colin
McComb
Not so much, I'm afraid. Though you've given me an idea....
Monte
Cook
I made it a point to use xorns, which are kinda goofy as
"monsters" but interesting planar "aliens." And mephits.
I like mephits for some reason.
Wolfgang
Baur
I decided it was worthwhile reinventing Hell to suit Asian
cosmologies, and wrote some critters to match. Well, and
the dinosaurs. Which are very cool, but never get nearly
enough play.
Monte
Cook
Yeah, if Wolf hadn't written a dinosaur-heavy plane, I would
have. That's just cool.
Colin
McComb
Mephits are funny, and totally unappreciated. And yeah,
dinosaurs have been underused, mainly, I think, because
if you're going to run into a big scaly monster, most people
want it to be a dragon. But now I want to run into dinosaurs.
BlackMoria
Beyond Countless Doorways has material that lends
itself very well to using other Malhavoc products. For example,
for Palpatur - one can see the PCs or foes peddling chaositech
to the tieflings to replace their failing or broken bioleche.
I could see using Galchutt has powerful unseen forces behind
the woes of the Mountains of the Five Winds.... and using
the Chaositech chaos
corruption/mutation rules for the effects of the chaos cloud.
Is this the case of deliberate design considerations or
a amazing coincidence that such a interchange of ideas between
products is possible?
Monte
Cook
Some of both, I think, truthfully. Like the obvious references
to the Nexus from Book of
Eldritch Might III and the Celestial River from
Book of Hallowed Might II.
And so on.
Colin
McComb
I didn't write Mountains specifically to use the chaos rules
-- I was more riffing off an idea that Jeff Grubb had casually
tossed out during a brainstorming meeting ten years ago
-- but I wanted to leave the possibility of some crossover
applicability wide, wide open.
Matt
Locke
All right -- that's the last of the questions for tonight
^_^
Monte
Cook
Well, time flies.
Galhavoc
Those were some great question!
Monte
Cook
Thanks to everyone for coming.
Matt
Locke
I'd like to thank everyone for coming, too, especially Colin,
Ray, and Wolfgang -- you made for some interesting chat
logs I'm sure ^_^
Java
Fiend
Thanks!
Wolfgang
Baur
Thanks, Matt! And thanks, everyone.
Galhavoc
We've really enjoyed getting everyone together!
Monte
Cook
In particular, thanks to Ray, Colin and Wolfgang. We really
appreciate you coming and chatting.
Galhavoc
Thanks for moderating as always, Matt!
BlackMoria
Thanks to the designers. Hope there is a Beyond Countless
Doorways II someday.
Monte
Cook
Thanks. I personally appreciate all of you for taking the
time to listen (or read) us all ramble on... Good night,
everyone.
Colin
McComb
Thanks, all!
Wolfgang
Baur
Thanks!
Derendel
Terrific book. I couldn't stop reading. thanks.
Galhavoc
Bye!
Colin
McComb
Night, everyone!
*
Transcript edited for style and clarity.
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